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This is an open forum to discuss general topics pertaining to Occupy Santa Rosa — notes, general discussions, and proposals (among other things).

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Will The ’’Real’’ Anarchists Please Stand Up (Discussion about Anarchy/Anarchism and Anarchists) (26 posts)

Viewing post 1 to 15 (26 total posts)
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  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Here is a description of anarchy that most of us can relate to:
    Occupy Wall Street’s anarchist roots

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/2011112872835904508.html

    Recent article being circulated in response to last week’s protests in Oakland:
    The Cancer in Occupy

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_cancer_of_occupy_20120206/?ln

    ”The Black Bloc anarchists, who have been active on the streets in Oakland and other cities, are the cancer of the Occupy movement.”

    Here is a published response to the previous piece:
    To Be Fair, He Is a Journalist: A Short Response to Chris Hedges on the Black Bloc

    http://facingreality.tumblr.com/post/17176503032/to-be-fair-he-is-a-journalist-a-short-response-to

    Are the Black Bloc really anarchists? Discuss??

    #
  • Profile picture of Jesse Maximillian Rex Jesse Maximillian Rex said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    It’s a terminology issue. Technically, yes. Technically, insurrectionary anarchism has run with leftist movements for years. It is a scourge and largely masturbatory self gratification with no strategic planning-what-so-ever.

    These are not the same as all anarchists, however. There are variances…but that doesn’t matter. It’s a greater extrapolation of societal fears: a tendency to paint the brush on a blanket group of individuals. Anarchism is a big idealogical block, moreso when you consider it’s many permutations: anarcho-primitivists, anarcho-syndicalists, mutualists, egoists, etc….

    …But to the society at large, the “a” word dredges old, tainted, associations. They will never shake. Ever. It may as well join the other “Taboo” idealogies insofar as smear is concerned [IE:Nazism, Communism has similar trappings]. In many ways, they are all viewed as “demons of the old world” to the elite.

    In many ways I am glad to be a Sorelian in such times. It is suitably obscure to evade scrutiny and profound abuse at the hands of corporate media. Insofar as I am concerned anarchists need a new word — call if horizontalism if you must — but aside from that statement, there is little else I can suggest.

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  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Looks like Hedges was taken down a notch or two. :)

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  • Profile picture of brokenrecord brokenrecord said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    My critique of the stuff that’s been happening in Oakland is hard to talk about because the status quo has framed and controlled the conversation. You either hate anarchists or you hate O.O. or (now the latest) you hate both. Anarchists = violence and violence = our biggest enemy. This is the conversation of the status quo.

    First of all, I want to say that throughout OSR’s lifetime, there have been people who have used the concept of nonviolence as a way to control other people’s behaviors, expressions, and speech. I for one believe that, up until now, because of the Oakland conversation, talking about nonviolence in OSR in the way that it was being talked about was largely a distraction. Can you point to me all of the times in US history where someone used violence as a political tactic against their political enemy? Can you point to me all the times in the history of the US Occupy movement where this has happened? All the times this has happened in Sonoma County in general? All of the times we have been dangerously close to this happening in Sonoma County? My point is, that we as OSR have never been in any serious danger of becoming violent. In fact, the times that I can think of where violence was potentially caused by OSR was when a rogue OSR member publicly accused another of wanting to be violent, therefore making that person a target for the police (and Homeland Security for that matter). Or the time that one of our “security” team members threatened to call the police on me for wanting to have a philosophical discussion about police with him. In other words, OSR protesters using violence as a political tactic against their political enemies is something that has such a low chance of happening that the amount of time, energy, ageist accusations, threats, interruptions, dismissals, and passionate outbursts that is spent on talking about “noniviolence” is a distraction and a waste of time.

    Now that we are faced with addressing the Oakland situation, I can see how the topic may be a bit more relevant. But not really. Only because the status quo has framed the conversation and we have put ourselves on the defense.

    Burning a flag, which a couple rogue Oakland Occupiers did, which was a relatively small part of a large action, is not an act of violence. It is a symbolic act of speech that has a tradition behind it. To label this as an act of violence is to (successfully, apparently) derail the conversation about Occupy, nonviolence, and police brutality. It is like labeling it an act of violence when they have those crazy funerals for military personnel where they fire off the rifles in ceremony. That is a traditional symbolic ceremony. It is not an act of violence. They are not firing off rifles for the same reasons that people usually fire rifles, which is to kill things. To label this as an act of violence would be to take it COMPLETELY out of context for your benefit. Their intentions are not to kill anything. Their intentions are to invoke a symbol. Burning a flag is not the same as burning random shit to scare your enemy. If you burn down a car or a house, you are probably doing it to threaten your enemy and strike fear into them, which makes this a violent action. If you burn a flag, you are not doing it for this reason. You are doing it because it is a symbolic ceremony. It’s no more violent than lighting a cigarette. If you burn a flag, and then throw it at your enemy so that they catch on fire, this would be an act of violence. Burning a flag to make a point is an act of speech, a symbol, like lighting a candle.

    I have issues with some of the things Oakland has done, as we all do. Their decision to put a lot of focus on police brutality is strategically questionable, as it puts us on the defensive and lets those in power guide our conversation. For this same reason, actions which are partly intended to cause clashes with the police to “call out” police violence are misguided. It’s a way of letting them control the conversation. All of a sudden we are now talking about how outraged we are that the police would protect wealth, when we should be saying that this is actually exactly how capitalism works.

    Notice I didn’t use the words right or wrong anywhere. That’s because my analysis is based on strategy. And here’s the point: imagine if your grandpa, your grandma, your uncle and aunt, your parents and you had all been harassed and abused by SRPD throughout your life. And let’s say SRPD murdered a good friend of yours from elementary school. And let’s say now that you’re an occupier, SRPD fired tear gas canisters at you and your children. And let’s say you used the F word in response to this. And then someone from Marin went on the internet and said “ummm please don’t use the F word, that alienates the police, thanks.”

    You would think that person was a dumbass.

    They might make a good point about whether you should watch your language as a strategy, but if they tell you that you “shouldn’t antagonize the police,” then….well, refer to the above. Don’t tell people what to feel about the police. Tell people your opinion on strategy and tactics. And if you think that it’s the F word that antagonizes the police, well you just have no idea how police work. They literally get paid to destroy the Occupy movement in Oakland. I mean literally. If you gave them valentine’s day candy, this would still be the case and they’d still try to choke you using chemical weapons, and they’d still be the foot soldiers for a racist economic system that ensures that the relationships of wealth remain intact.

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  • Profile picture of brokenrecord brokenrecord said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    also, emerald’s post on ageism was so, so, so rad and emerald rules.

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  • Profile picture of brokenrecord brokenrecord said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    also i’m the biggest critic of the US anarchist movement in my group of friends.

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  • Profile picture of Adrienne Lauby Adrienne Lauby said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    LIVE-STREAMER REVEALS QUANDARY OF AN OWS ACTIVIST – JOURNALIST

    http://www.nonprofitquarterly.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19736:live-streamer-reveals-quandary-of-an-ows-activistjournalist&catid=155:nonprofit-newswire&Itemid=986

    Nonprofit Newswire
    February 08, 2012
    Louis Altman

    February 3, 2012;The Guardian
    Tim Pool gained national attention for his in medias res coverage of Occupy Wall Street’s (OWS) eviction in mid-November. He garnered infamy within the movement that same night when he refused to stop filming several masked protestors deflating a police cruiser’s tires. This crystalizes a conundrum that many who are both activists and journalists in the world of new media face: they are morally bound to cover a situation accurately, but also bound by belief to a community of action. What happens when the two collide?

    In protests around the world, citizen journalists are chronicling history with anything they have at hand. Armed with iPhones, they document and pass along what is happening in the midst of direct action. In this case, Pool’s filming of a fairly mild but controversial incident of civil disobedience was picked up by Al Jazeera on a live stream.

    OWS’ loose-leading Direct Action Work Group is not amused by Pool’s klieg lights on its full “diversity of action” strategy, but Pool is not without backers; he has raised thousands of dollars and has 11,000 Twitter followers.

    Is Pool an activist or a journalist? “When you have anarchists draining police tires who are saying don’t film me because I’m doing something illegal, I’m going to film them,” Pool said at a January 29th OWS rally in lower Manhattan. On the other hand, Occupy Wall Street organizer Jason Ahmadi posits that this is tantamount to “informing the police. And when you inform the police of an illegal activity, that is the definition of a snitch.” He goes on to suggest that Pool is very specifically protected by the police, citing the fact that he has never been arrested, though other live streamers have. Pool says that those types of feelings are resulting in a series of indirect threats on Twitter, but also in other protestors declaring that they will “have his back.”

    Protester Ted Hall believes that Pool is a hero of transparency for Occupy Wall Street: “We have people within our movement who are doing things that the vast majority of people in this movement would not agree with,” he says. “Our strengths are not in secrecy. Our strengths are in transparency. Anything that’s secretive is going to attract instigators and undercovers like a moth to a flame.” –Louis Altman

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  • Profile picture of Amy Robinson Amy Robinson said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    First of all, I don’t know who you are, brokenrecord, but damn, I loved your comment!

    Second, here is a short piece on “How not to block the black bloc” by long-time Quaker activist George Lakey, who offers a different way of talking about violence and nonviolence in Occupy:

    http://wagingnonviolence.org/2012/02/how-not-to-block-the-black-bloc/

    #
  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Wow, great replies… I’ll be back!
    Here is another one by Chris Hedges in a video interview on the same topic:

    Chris Hedges: ‘Black Bloc’ Could Kill OWS

    #
  • Profile picture of Jesse Maximillian Rex Jesse Maximillian Rex said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    http://www.truth-out.org/interview-chris-hedges-about-black-bloc/1328799148

    Follow up. Interesting read.

    #
  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    http://occupyeverything.org/2011/the-oakland-commune/

    This is mostly very good. But it’s written by an occupier and not by the press.
    My only complaint about this article refers to the demographic description. African American women and women of color are completely left out of the demographic description, and not only is this messed up but it is completely untrue!
    I really like the reference to the historic commune as a political ideology as well as a living revolution. Be the change that we want to see! Be the change.

    #
  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Wow. Anarchists are sure in the news these days. This was posted by OSF:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy#Kropotkin

    #
  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    Activists and Anarchists Speak for Themselves at Occupy Oakland

    http://www.truth-out.org/occupy-oakland/1328726021

    I have very mixed feelings about this report also. It’s a good thing that we are not trying to sell anarchy to the public. It has always been misunderstood – and now more than ever. But through this movement we have found each other. And we know what we stand for.
    And let us not forget, that the ”alternative” press is selling newspapers too. They sensationalize, they exaggerate, they isolate incidents and they will sell their souls sometimes for a good story. I have never been so betrayed as by a so-called friend who I confided in about the internal fighting and struggles of my group and then see it all in print! That scoop was worth more than our friendship. We know not to trust the mainstream press but we sometimes forget that we can be misunderstood and misrepresented, even by people who think that they are ”on our side”.

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  • Profile picture of brokenrecord brokenrecord said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    http://jdeanicite.typepad.com/i_cite/2012/02/david-graeber-concerning-the-violent-peace-police-a-response-to-chris-hedges-nplusone.html

    #
  • Profile picture of Jesse Maximillian Rex Jesse Maximillian Rex said 1 year, 4 months ago:

    While I am still interested in conversation, I am still at a loss and have fundamental questions: how does smashing a few windows and ruining a few stores change society? What strategic goal does it have? What will it do? Does it do more harm than good?

    #
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